Pokerspot
Pokerspot. God I hate that word. I used to love it. I used to think it was the most clever word ever. Pokerspot dot com. It was clever because it rhymed.
For those of you that don't know (all four of you), Pokerspot might have been my ticket to that cushy eight figure a year job that everybody dreams about. Instead, it ended up ruining me financially and really screwing up my reputation in the poker world (to get the whole story, check out an interview I gave at the RakeFree FAQ page).
So for the last two days I've been in a really raunchy mood. Some asshole decided to post a little comment on my blog calling me a piece of shit and saying I ripped a whole bunch of people off. I deleted the comment and changed it so that now only registered users of Blogger can post comments. What a great example of how one bad apple can... blah...
After I deleted the comment, this guy emails me and tells me what a piece of shit I am for deleting it. I emailed him back and told him that if he was a user of Pokerspot to let me know and I'd try and get him paid back pretty quick. Instead, he just went to RGP to post some more shit about me... leading me to think that he was not in anyway harmed by Pokerspot. Most of the people who talk shit weren't. They're just eating up gossip about players in the spotlight and gladly passing it on because it makes them somehow feel active and informed (and btw, this isn't directed to actual uesrs of the site who lost money, as they have every right to talk as bad about me as they want).
The whole episode has put me in a bad mood for the last day and a half. And without cigs to help ease the pain, it's pretty rough.
So let's lay out a few facts :
(1) I didn't steal any money. When Pokerspot went down, it crippled me financially and I had to pawn off a whole bunch of shit just to get a bankroll so I could grind at the 1-2 tables online and try and jump back on my feet somehow. I deeply regret the day I ever thought up Pokerspot. It cost me two years of my life, tons of money, and a lot of headache.
(2) Even though I'm in no way legally obligated to, I have paid out close to $10k out of my own pocket over the last two years trying to get old Pokerspot players paid back. Maybe that doesn't seem like a lot, but considering what I've actually gotten to keep over the last couple years, it's a lot to me.
(3) If you weren't affected by Pokerspot, and you continue to dog on me, going out of your way to make things difficult, then shame on you. You are probably some attention-starved losing poker player who doesn't have enough to do with your time except to try and ruin my rep. You have to be pretty miserable with your own circumstances. Get a life... a girlfriend or a dog or something to cheer you up. I'm really worried about you guys.
(4) If you did lose money to Pokerspot, shoot me an email with your username and how much you'd accept to lose any of your hard feelings. I'll check it against my own records. I pledge to do what I can to pay you back.
Sorry fact of Pokerspot is that it will never die. Even once I figure out a way to get everybody paid back, there'll still be assholes on RGP or the other forums calling me a piece of shit. A lot of people out there are hungry for negativity.
So want to help me out? Here are a few ways to do it.
(1) Click on one of the Pokerspot links and click through to some of the sponsors on the parked page.
(2) Post something positive the next time you're lurking on Rec.Gambling.Poker. Hell, why not go there now and start a post saying something like "I hear a lot of shit about Dutch Boyd... and for the record, I like him. Who here has he actually ripped off and for how much?" I'd actually be pretty interested in seeing who responds... I'd put them at the top of the list of people getting paid back. Most of the posters on there were never playing on the site.
(3) Most important, don't judge me as a poker player OR a person for poor business decisions made before I was even old enough to play in a cardroom.
Now let's get back to playing some poker.
For those of you that don't know (all four of you), Pokerspot might have been my ticket to that cushy eight figure a year job that everybody dreams about. Instead, it ended up ruining me financially and really screwing up my reputation in the poker world (to get the whole story, check out an interview I gave at the RakeFree FAQ page).
So for the last two days I've been in a really raunchy mood. Some asshole decided to post a little comment on my blog calling me a piece of shit and saying I ripped a whole bunch of people off. I deleted the comment and changed it so that now only registered users of Blogger can post comments. What a great example of how one bad apple can... blah...
After I deleted the comment, this guy emails me and tells me what a piece of shit I am for deleting it. I emailed him back and told him that if he was a user of Pokerspot to let me know and I'd try and get him paid back pretty quick. Instead, he just went to RGP to post some more shit about me... leading me to think that he was not in anyway harmed by Pokerspot. Most of the people who talk shit weren't. They're just eating up gossip about players in the spotlight and gladly passing it on because it makes them somehow feel active and informed (and btw, this isn't directed to actual uesrs of the site who lost money, as they have every right to talk as bad about me as they want).
The whole episode has put me in a bad mood for the last day and a half. And without cigs to help ease the pain, it's pretty rough.
So let's lay out a few facts :
(1) I didn't steal any money. When Pokerspot went down, it crippled me financially and I had to pawn off a whole bunch of shit just to get a bankroll so I could grind at the 1-2 tables online and try and jump back on my feet somehow. I deeply regret the day I ever thought up Pokerspot. It cost me two years of my life, tons of money, and a lot of headache.
(2) Even though I'm in no way legally obligated to, I have paid out close to $10k out of my own pocket over the last two years trying to get old Pokerspot players paid back. Maybe that doesn't seem like a lot, but considering what I've actually gotten to keep over the last couple years, it's a lot to me.
(3) If you weren't affected by Pokerspot, and you continue to dog on me, going out of your way to make things difficult, then shame on you. You are probably some attention-starved losing poker player who doesn't have enough to do with your time except to try and ruin my rep. You have to be pretty miserable with your own circumstances. Get a life... a girlfriend or a dog or something to cheer you up. I'm really worried about you guys.
(4) If you did lose money to Pokerspot, shoot me an email with your username and how much you'd accept to lose any of your hard feelings. I'll check it against my own records. I pledge to do what I can to pay you back.
Sorry fact of Pokerspot is that it will never die. Even once I figure out a way to get everybody paid back, there'll still be assholes on RGP or the other forums calling me a piece of shit. A lot of people out there are hungry for negativity.
So want to help me out? Here are a few ways to do it.
(1) Click on one of the Pokerspot links and click through to some of the sponsors on the parked page.
(2) Post something positive the next time you're lurking on Rec.Gambling.Poker. Hell, why not go there now and start a post saying something like "I hear a lot of shit about Dutch Boyd... and for the record, I like him. Who here has he actually ripped off and for how much?" I'd actually be pretty interested in seeing who responds... I'd put them at the top of the list of people getting paid back. Most of the posters on there were never playing on the site.
(3) Most important, don't judge me as a poker player OR a person for poor business decisions made before I was even old enough to play in a cardroom.
Now let's get back to playing some poker.
posted by Dutch Boyd at
23:32
17 Comments:
The link for the faq is broken...should be faq.htm
point #2 - well done you. I must admit I'm not up to speed on events of what happened, and have only read a little amount about what happened - but realistically it isn't your debt to pay off anymore...right? No one can expect you to pay back users of a business that went bust from your own pocket, regardless of whether you own $10 or $10m. The debt is under the business, not the individual - regardless of who owned the business.
Like you say, the original users who lost money are the ones who should be angry - but it seems it's them who are playing it cool and other morons hoping to make a quick buck for you to shut them up that are doing the slandering - and I can pretty much guarantee that this will continue even if all users are refunded what they lost. Unfortunately, the best thing you can do is try to rise above them, continue deleting what they write, trying not to let them bait you in something they are unwilling to understand.
and stay off the smokes :)
Thanks for the encouraging words, chicken. And also thanks to Omnicon for reporting the broken link.
Obviously they have nothing better to do. Don't sweat the small shit. Your doing more then most would, by attempting to repay. It isn't your debt. How long has it been since you had a smoke? Gonna try to quit again at New Years.
It's been three weeks, but I cheated... on the way here from AC I had a few drags of my brother Bobby's cigs. Probably would have bummed a whole cig, but he smokes menthols. How gross is that? ;)
LOL, real gross. That alone would make me quit. Now there is an idea.
From what I've read about the pokerspot situation, you are doing above and beyond what anyone could possibly expect from you. I think the average person involved a business that went under would have either denied responsibility or disappeared altogether. I think you are going far beyond what you are legally obligated to: You had less (far less, ?) than a majority stake in the business, you have gone out of your way to actually reclaim the losses, and have been willing to repay with personal income.
Unfortunately whatever ends up happening, even if you win the 2005 WSOP for $10 million and can pay every cent back, people will always try to bring you down because of the failed venture. You have addressed the issue and tried to take the high road, you have done all you can.
People don't think logically. Why would you intentionally jeopardize the money of costumers, who are making you money. Dutch, from what I've seen on tv, seems like a pretty smart guy. I can't imagine him thinking, if I steal all my costumers money, I"ll make much more then if I continue to provide them with a service in which I would make just as much or more in 4 months. It's the same people who think online poker is rigged, because you know the online casino's really want to discourage people from depositing more money.
sheesh!
Dutch,
You are completely right about the whole Pokerspot thing. So you tried and you and failed (thanks to the financial company who ripped you off). Who cares? Businesses fail all the time and you don't hear people complaining and commenting on the character of the owner for years to come.
Poker players need to thank you for what you did for the online poker industry. Who knows where online poker would be today without the innovative software of Pokerspot and learning from early mistakes. Don't let people get to you as like you said they are most likely losing players who have to take their frustrations out on someone. Good luck man and take care.
Andrew
Dutch, I would just like to thank you for being the coolest poker player ever. You are the only player I know of that interacts with their fans as you do. Don't let people who criticize you bother you. Their sole intention is to get to you. Be the bigger man and show them that you will rise up and overcome, much like the African Americans have done. As for the whole smoking thing, I strongly suggest you quit because my father died at age 46 of lung cancer when i was only 13. I'm sure you plan on getting married and having kids. Take it from someone who has gone through it, it's the worst thing you can experience as a kid. I was wondering if you ever play at Turning Stone in New York because my friend and I turn 18 in about 25 months and are going to make a trip up there every weekend to play. We would love to play with you if you were ever up there. Keep up the work on the new software.
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
So how much of what you won in the WSOP went towards "paying people back"? (You've won at least $120,000 in the last two years) How did you afford the entry fees to multiple events while still owing people money? ($20,000 for two main events plus however many side events you played in)
I see both sides of the story, and there is nothing more vengeful than a gambler that has lost his money. I believe you've made some effort, but do you have a list of who is still owed what, etc? Did you apportion any of your winnings to debt payback?
If you're so up and up about it, have a page on your site listing all the players, who has been paid back and who hasn't, along with the dates they were paid back. That might alleviate some of the "hate" on RGP as well.
Thomas,
In 2003, I won my way in to the main event. On the second and third day, I traded out a pretty decent chunk of myself. In 2004, I was backed for the main event.
When people look at the "total winnings" of poker players, they have to remember to take into account (1) that it doesn't factor in all the buyins that they've lost, and (2) it doesn't factor in backing arrangements or percentage swaps.
Putting a list of players paid back on a website is a good idea. I'll try to do that in the next few months.
Glad you like the idea, but for it to be anything but self serving, you would need to include the names/amounts of people that have not been paid back as well. (Can be screen names or something else anonymous.)
Otherwise, all you'll get is responses such as "Yeah, but who HASN'T been paid back?"
Dutch
Yeah, I think having a publicly accessible site which shows the payback progress would be pretty cool. If you could get people to acknowledge the payback or at least the commencement of payback, that would be even cooler, then people would have a harder time saying you aren't doing anything.
In other news, I got backed last week on a 50%-of-winnings deal and quadrupled the roll via a string of wins on Stars. It took me exactly 7 days. Boy, did that feel good! It was nice to know I could come through, you know? I had 4 1st's, 1 2nd, placing 2nd or higher in 40% of these 18 person tourneys. One game I only saw the flop 14% of the time before the final 9. I earned!
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat." -Teddy Roosevelt
Dutch, let me give you some constructive criticism. I wasn't affected by the Pokerspot issue, but, like all online poker players, I'm conscious of the possibility of a pokerroom disappearing with my money.
You should make an effort to appear as if you're actively pursuing returning people's money. Asking people to "shoot you an email" if they feel they were owed money isn't good enough. You should show that you are tracking down these people and trying to make amends.
I believe that you are sincere about wanting to make good on this, whether or not it was your fault. And I believe that you recognize the continued heartache you'll be put through until you can finally claim that you made good. Please, you know who they are, you have at least their old email addresses, and you can try to contact them. Yourself. With your personal promise to do what you can, and your apologies. It's not good enough to post on a blog or a forum, you need to do more.
You are one of the hot faces of poker, a potential star, and poker needs for you to do more to fix your reputation.
- Dave Sousa, Shenzhen, China
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